Dobson’s moments and Evangelicals’ Election Days

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Evangelicals have been the most loyal GOP voters since Ronald Reagan brought them into the party in droves in 1980. They left their previous apathy or Democratic Party allegiance to vote for Republicans based on issues, not instructions from media appointed “leaders.”

Given that, I was quite amused at all the teeth gnashing by certain libertarian and/or secular leaning conservatives last winter when Dr. James Dobson and other prominent Evangelicals vocalized their opposition to pro-choice candidate Rudy Giuliani. I was even more amused at the wailing when Dobson announced he couldn’t vote for John McCain. My amusement was a mask for my contempt for people that have such a low opinion of Evangelicals (as well as Southerners and Christians in general) as to think that they follow pied-pipers rather than vote issues like the enlightened.

The wailing teeth-gnashers were convinced by “leader” statements and those ubiquitous between election polls that liberals put out to torture the political novices or those with memories that seem to wane every four years, that Evangelicals would abandon the party.

So, given that so many wrote off the Evangelical vote, and, hence, the election based on Dobson musings of “the moment”, I am expectantly waiting for the nervous nellies whose world is created anew each morning by the MSM and conservative chatterers, to make a U-turn and declare all is well after:

“I have considered the fact that elections always involve imperfect candidates … you always have to choose between two flawed individuals,” Dobson said on his national radio broadcast July 21. But Dobson also said there are several significant issues where he and McCain agree.

“As of this moment, I have to take into account that Sen. John McCain has voted pro-life consistently,” Dobson said. “… He says he favors marriage between a man and a woman. He opposes homosexual adoption. He favors smaller government and lower taxes and he seems to understand the Muslim threat, which matters a lot to me.

Therefore, I have considered the fact that elections always involve imperfect candidates — there are no perfect human beings — and you always have to choose between two flawed individuals…. I never thought I would hear myself saying this, but it’s where I am: While I am not endorsing Sen. John McCain, the possibility is there that I might.”

McCain supports embryonic stem cell research and has opposed a federal marriage amendment; although he has have left wiggle room on both issues and implied or said he could change. But he has sought to reach out to pro-lifers during campaign speeches; during one recent stop in Missouri he told the crowd that they could count on his “active advocacy for the rights of the unborn.” He also has stated his support for a proposed California marriage amendment, which Obama opposes.

In February, Dobson said he was opposed to Republicans voting to make McCain their presidential nominee and said with McCain and Obama or Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) as the nominees, he would not cast a ballot in November.

“There’s no doubt — at least no doubt in my mind — about whose policies will result in more babies being killed or will do the greatest damage to the institution of marriage and the family,” Dobson said. “I am convinced that Sen. McCain comes closer to what I believe.”

Dobson said that Obama is an intelligent and charismatic candidate who, on the surface, is an attractive candidate. But Obama’s beliefs on key issues, the two men said, should alarm conservative Christians.

Dobson said he thinks Obama is “more liberal and more extreme than most Democrats in the Senate.” The “best example” of that, Dobson said, is the Born Alive Infants Protection Act, which passed the Senate 98-0. Obama, then an Illinois state legislator, opposed a version of it on the state level. The bill would have given legal rights to babies who survive abortions.

Obama “was chairman of the committee who dealt with” the bill and “spoke against the bill, arguing for the right to kill those babies,” Dobson said. Obama has a position that “even his liberal colleagues don’t represent. This man is really far, far left.” Dobson said the point of the program was “not to tell people how to vote” but instead “to ask people to think about the issues.”

So, who are the real mind-numbed robots, us Evangelicals, including the Cockstradamas among us that said last winter that Dobson would come around and that even if he didn’t, Evangelicals would come out in droves against an Obama or a Clinton, or too many of the conservative chattering class that follow the conventional wisdom story lines campaign season after campaign season, oblivious to the repeating pattern?

Why?

Because Evangelicals came into the GOP because Democrats’ economic policies were ruinous, they were weak on defense, and they favored judge made law that re-writes the Constitution, especially with respect to life and local control of public schools.

Guess what? They still care about those issues, and they still can spot a leftist a mile away. It was a bit harder in 1980 when one of their own sold out, but it has gotten increasingly easier since, and the Obama is anathema with his 20-year pew-parked in a hate whitey America church.

Dobson and friends wanted to make sure the GOP nominee was pro-life. They got their way.

Evangelicals want America to reject liberals that attack the values they hold dear whether Dobson or anyone else lets his pride get in the way of the sanity they live by each day.

So, all you that wrote off the Evangelical vote based on an “at this moment” writ Dobson last winter, start churning out the crow eating essays.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns

Legal Editor for The Minority and HinzSight Reports

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Race 4 2008

“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson

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David Hinz's picture

on the left, have always believed that we on the right take our marching orders from a handful of leaders and do everything they tell us to do.

The conformists who disallow any thought other than the "party line" seem much more left-robotic than right-robotic...

aceintx's picture

They attribute their own thought processes to us because it's all they know. They blindly follow the MSM and the Dummycrat echo machine so they assume we do the same!

It's pathetic ain't it?

Impeach the Traitorous 5!!!

aceintx's picture

I'm not all in with Dobson yet...but your points on our status as mind numbed robots is dead on!

Impeach the Traitorous 5!!!

gamecock's picture

last winter, but I think many repubs went overboard in their attacks on him as well as their assumption that we follow leaders. Dobson has been good for the GOP. He is not part of the GOP. He owes us nothing. I think he hurt his own credibility by acting the political power player, but he is a good man and great in his element. Family counseling.

"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

BlackRepub's picture

Nobody wanted McCain to be the nominee because no one felt he was strong on the issues. I don't think that evangelicals would have stayed home no matter who the nominee was out of this field just because of the far left positions of Clinton and Obama. In the end, most SoCons I think know the GOP is going to be better for their interests than the Democrats. However, now I come to you with a quibble. It seems that your stance is clouded by your personal feelings of moving to the right. Check out Mississippi and Montana, and pro-life Casey Jr where Democrats are running economic liberals and social conservatives-where is the great faith in a strong America and belief in the Democrats ruinous economic policies. For the SoCons it really comes down to abortion and gay marriage, and lately when those two are off the table, we have been getting killed among Evangelicals. It seems that Evangelicals are a harder sell, not because of Dobson, but because other than the social issues, they are indeed swing voters as evidenced by Clinton winning Southern States and the deliverance of Carter to the Presidency.

“"My worse fears had come to pass not in Georgia, but in Washington, D.C., where I was being pursued not by bigots in white robes but by left-wing zealots draped in flowing sanctimony."-The Honorable Justice Clarence Thomas
Kill the terrorists.
End the NewTone.
Punch the Hippies.

gamecock's picture

when I was a dem party activist from 1980-1998 and econ and national security policies trumped that also important social issues you refer to, which is really an argument over judges.

BR, so-cons are WHOLE people that want to make a living, saw the failed lib policies of Carter and the dems and also don't want to be intimidated and harmed by foreign enemies. Are you clouded by too much time up north? Are you a cartoon character that only cares about two issues? No

Neither are we. Show us the respect I am showing you.

cool? I tire of the simplistic caricatures. Especially as an eyewitness that knows better.

"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

BlackRepub's picture

I agree with you that there are SO Cons who are three pronged conservatives across the board. No disrespect intended to Dixie GC, though I am in the Heartland, which I'd argue is as socially conservative as the South. My point is the re emergence of the Democratic Party in the South, specifically in Ruby Red places like Mississippi and in pro life Pennsylvania suggests otherwise than your account that so-cons are all full Reaganite conservatives. I was merely pointing out that once the two main socially conservative issues are taken off the table, it seems questionable how committed some So-Cons are to the other 2 legs of the stool given by the fact that socially conservative, end the War in Iraq big spending Democrats are winning elections in places where Republicans have been winning for years. Is this a criticism of So-Cons in general? No-but we are arguing SoCons vs Single Issue Values Voters, the latter of whom seem to be pulling the lever for Democrats if all of the factors surrounding the social issues are the same.

“"My worse fears had come to pass not in Georgia, but in Washington, D.C., where I was being pursued not by bigots in white robes but by left-wing zealots draped in flowing sanctimony."-The Honorable Justice Clarence Thomas

gamecock's picture

Yes, there is a re-emergence of dems at the congressional level. They ran as conservatives in 2006! This bolsters my point. There has been no re-emergence of dems voting for liberals and esp not for Kerry like dems as president, much less for Obamas.

NR, I just think it is myth that there are now, or ever were many one-issue "values" voters, but those that are out there are going to vote, in droves! against Obama. He is for the right to kill BORN babies if they are born on an abortion table.

Come on BR!

I also think there are more values issues and that numero uno, arguably is about local schools and the desire to get fed judges out the classroom. That is mostly done NOW, as Kennedy votes opposite of O'Connor, but we don't want to go back.

more later

good discussion

You need me!

smile

"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

pilgrim's picture

I agree that it is silly for folks to think that social conservatives are just sitting around waiting for Dobson to make his pronouncement before they do anything. I also think that so-cons are not going to sit this one out because in their eyes they have been attacked by court rulings that touch their lives.
I still don't agree with you that social conservatives care a lot about the {quote global issues unquote}. They mostly care about domestic issues they feel are directly impacting their lives. USA 1st and Life Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness for Americans. They are swing independent type voters when it comes to treaties with other countries.
John Wayne: "You're a persistent cuss, pilgrim."

gamecock's picture

Come on down and meet thousands. And I don't mean Dixie, I mean south of Indy!

You last paragraph is a bit vague.

"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

pilgrim's picture

I was not talking about Islamic terror. I was talking about a Kyoto treaty or a treaty between the US and Peru. Anything that has to do with how people in DC spend their time talking with leaders from other countries may be very important to you and to me. Some people just do not get into the politics of those kind of things so much. When I wrote it I was clear about what I meant. But I guess I was vague.
John Wayne: "You're a persistent cuss, pilgrim."

BlackRepub's picture

But you are not the voter I was speaking of. I would quibble that the Democrats ran as conservatives in 2006-in fact you prove my point. They ran as social conservatives-but against the Iraq War and for eliminating Bush's "tax cuts for the rich". In other words, they were putting lipstick on the pig and they did a good enough job to sell it to the American people. Obama is a liberal-but how do you explain them voting for people like Casey Jr, Sebelius, Shuler, Webb, Tester? These are liberals in every single way except for abortion and gay marriage. You are talking about the top of the ticket, and I agree-but only because Obama is so far to the left. You take abortion off the table like they did in these states, and the SoCons bolt as they have been doing since 2006.

"My worse fears had come to pass not in Georgia, but in Washington, D.C., where I was being pursued not by bigots in white robes but by left-wing zealots draped in flowing sanctimony."-The Honorable Justice Clarence Thomas

gamecock's picture

I agree that most of those you named are libs on econ policy and that most ran against the war in some sense. I would say that 2006 was a unique year six greivance election. But, I don't think they ran as econ libs or as appeasing doves. The key" ran as. Some will lose re-election when their records are seen.

I just don't agree that there are very many of these voters that will bolt due to one issue or that would bolt to Obama. But I could be underestimating.

I do agree with you that Obama's extreme leftism is a key to my argument.

more later

great looking family btw, except for that big guy! smile

Are u in Chicago?

Tigers and Phils ruining our sundays...

"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

BlackRepub's picture

We;re planning to move down to Georgia next year and finally live in a nice ruby red state. Yeah Tigers ruined today, bu I'm more worried about the Twinkies tomorrow. I think that there is a difference between the solid three pronged conservatives like you and the sort of populist social conservatives that I see-in fact look at the popularity of Huckabee. He proves my point competely-a fiscal liberal who questions the Iraq War but hard right on social issues-look how popular he was among evangelicals and how horrible he was with everyone else in the Party.

"My worse fears had come to pass not in Georgia, but in Washington, D.C., where I was being pursued not by bigots in white robes but by left-wing zealots draped in flowing sanctimony."-The Honorable Justice Clarence Thomas

David Hinz's picture

was a little bit like the scene in "Tootsie" where the director was trying to pull back the camera to "soften" the look of Dustin Hoffman/Tootsie. He asked the cameraman how far he could pull back. The guy says something like, "How about Fresno?"

Huckabee looked great -- clean, articulate, a social conservative who was not afraid to talk about his faith -- until the camera got too close and you discovered all of his warts.

I think a lot of his support came from the ABM crowd -- anybody but Mitt. Then again, although I could never prove it, I suspect that at least some of his support came from Ron Paul supporters who hoped to SO badly destroy the Republican primary race that no clear winner would emerge and MAYBE JUST MAYBE they could stealthily win the nomination for RonPaul.

I won't deny that many social conservatives simply BLINDLY followed him because he was the ONLY candidate who wasn't divorced or Mormon.

Oh, and I mean it about getting together after work one evening -- preferably on a day that I am not biking home. ;-)

aceintx's picture

is trash...

I was taken in by Huckabee's ability to make a coherent point without sounding like he was repeating a phrase some handler made him utter over and over again...I finally saw beneath the thin veneer that was Mike Huckabee...and I'm ashamed to admit that I ever supported him!

Where Mitt Romney is concerned...you played the Mormon card just like Jesse Jackson plays the race card minimizing every objection to Romney as anti Mormon bigotry...That is very disappointing coming from you because I know you're better than that...my opposition to him was and remains a lack of trust and a dislike of his used car salesman persona...he comes across as wooden and like one of those GI Joe pull toys that recites cliche' after cleche' every time his string is pulled...I also don't trust his last minute conversion on many issues near and dear to my heart because it made him appear to be an opportunist of the worst order...I still don't trust him...but his religion had/has nothing to do with my opposition to him...and I know that goes for the great majority of those who opposed him...in fact...I know Mormons who opposed him because his earlier stances on abortion and gay marriage made him less of a Mormon in their eyes.

Can we please drop the "Poor Mitt...he can't get a break from those torch wielding Christians because he's a Mormon" routine?

Impeach the Traitorous 5!!!

David Hinz's picture

"you" does not fit the bill. I supported Mitt Romney only after it became clear that my first two choices were not going to make any headway at all. Although I wasn't actively working toward that goal, like the MoRons were, I actually was hoping that the remaining candidates might split the vote all the way to the convention, thereby throwing the convention into an Open Convention -- and maybe, just maybe, in the end the party would choose Fred Thompson as a consensus candidate.

I liked Rudy as well because of his grit and stance on lower taxes and smaller government. His personal life, while troubling, was all out there -- I mean we have all seen the photo of him in the dress. I think his strategy was the worst of the entire field.

I admit, I voted for Romney in the MI Primary -- strategically denying it to McCain, so that Thompson could muster more support elsewhere. Didn't work out!

The Mormon thing DID have an effect. I DO believe that many of the anti-Mormon things put out during the early campaign were if fact, FROM the Romney campaign - as you say, using it as a club to call anyone who opposed him a bigot.

But, in talking to a couple of friends -- one of whom LIVES in Utah, and has constant contact with the LDS, told me they would never vote for Mitt because the LDS was a cult. That really took me back, because I didn't expect to hear that from those sources.

Way back at the beginning, before it appeared he even had a chance, I said some nice things about Mike Huckabee. Even wrote a piece to that effect. Liked the way he had turned his personal life around -- by that I mean losing the 100 pounds through diet and exercise -- that shows a strong-willed mind, and a determination to stick to a goal.

But, then when he started talking like a "food Nazi" and I learned about all the of Social-ism tendencies -- Nanny-State Mike went off my radar.

So, Ace, please don't include me in the "you" when talking about the Mitt acolytes. I supported him late -- and as a backup position -- because I thought then -- and still suspect -- he might be better than the eventual nominee on several key issues. The "late" conversion to conservative positions really didn't bother me that much as I always figured he went left because MA is left, whereas right was his natural bent.

aceintx's picture

what you wrote before...and it left the impression that you were falling back on the "evangelicals" won't vote for Mitt because he's a Mormon..Meme. Maybe I misread it...but that's the way it came across, thus my reaction. I did say I knew you were better than that but it came across completely wrong to me.

This tactic has really become a major annoyance to me because it's a damnable lie. Are there evangelicals who wouldn't vote for Romney because he's a Mormon...sure....Are there Evangelicals who won't vote for McCain because he's Catholic...absolutely...were there Libertarians who wouldn't vote for GW Bush because he was openly Christan?...you betcha !

The point I'm trying to make is just because there are some that are Bigots...it doesn't mean we all are and Romney supporters are way too quick to play the Mormon Card...I would add the more it's played on me the less likely I am to ever support Romney for any office!

I've been hit with it in a thread about why Romney should be the VP over at RS...and I'm getting my head kicked in over there with the same despicable tactic in a thread about this subject as we speak...

Impeach the Traitorous 5!!!

gamecock's picture

http://race42008.com/2007/12/27/bigotry-identity-politics-class-envy-and-reaching-out-a-devine-primer/#comments

That we MUST not do, and I don’t think even Huck did that. I abhor his class envy rhetoric and I think he has on a FEW occasions catered to a very few bigots, but overall, I think it is the media that advances the idea that identity politics is behind Huck’s rise.

Huck rose due to:

1) Having a pulse, esp in debates, as compared to the rest, (See passion, vision and reaching out) on religious and mostly non-religious issues;

2) Mitt was in Iowa too long; and

3) The rest were in Iowa too little.

Huck is admired for being unashamed to take on the PC police by being very public with his faith and not being afraid to say the name of Jesus in public.

But Huck’s rise is quite limited in substance and he will fall. But let’s not insult his supporters as he falls by labeling them bigots.

There were a lot of reasons to oppose Mitt; Iowa is liberal and it was crowded feild.

"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

gamecock's picture

more later

"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

aceintx's picture

Impeach the Traitorous 5!!!

gamecock's picture

"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

aceintx's picture

The Dem's are making headway with SoCons because of two things...

First, the Dems are actively courting them while the Republican Party is tripping all over it's self to piss all over us...

Second...while being pissed on is nothing new to us, we've stayed with the Republican Party even when it has actively shoved us in the corner in 1976, 1992 and 1996 because we could count on the Party to at least stick to it's ideals of smaller government, lower taxes and less spending standing up to the radical environmentalists and so on...We don't have that now....

So, given the tax and spend nature of the Republican party today added to the fact that we're being pushed to the exits or being hidden in the attic by the RMSP types, coupled with the fact the Democrats are seemingly inviting us to come to them...why would anyone be surprised when we at least go where we're being welcomed.

(I know it's all a lie that the Dems want us...but there are enough of us that will buy the lie to sink the fool from AZ!...and why not...the Republican party has been having it's way with us and sending us off with cab fare for 30 years!)

Impeach the Traitorous 5!!!

Steven Foley's picture

There are absolutely zero issues the Democrats are offering on their platform that even remotely connect to Social Conservatives! "Not One"

Look, don't vote for McCain, I don't give a sh**.... but don't dress up your decision and need for revenge in this nonsense!

Willfully accepting a lie in order to prove a point makes you ignorant not principled!!!

aceintx's picture

Convergence of the Dems actively running socially conservative candidates at the same time the Republicans are simultaneously spending like drunken sailors and telling SoCons to go to the back of the bus...

Normally when the Republican Party swings left on Social issues 2 and 3 legged SoCons have two other legs to stay on...this year is really off because the Party is moving left on two legs of the stool!

I didn't mention McCain in this because he's at least solid on spending and trustworthy on life...I'm pointing to Congressional Republicans with what I'm saying!

Finally, vengence has nothing to do with my post

Impeach the Traitorous 5!!!

Steven Foley's picture

...fill in the blank Congressmen or Senator.

Your premise, that the the Republican Party has swung left is disingenuous at best. please name and link to the platform positions that prove this shift? Problem is, you can't, because they haven't, period! -- Your perception of the Party is irrelevant!

As to this:

Quote:
vengeance has nothing to do with my post

I beg to differ, vengeance is the only motivator one could find for this naive approach to party switching or willfully allowing yourselves to be deceived into voting (D)!

like you said:

Quote:
(I know it's all a lie that the Dems want us...but there are enough of us that will buy the lie to sink the fool from AZ!...and why not...the Republican party has been having it's way with us and sending us off with cab fare for 30 years!)

Not only is the 30 years a total misconception SoCons and the Religious right have been a HUGE force in the Party for most of that 30 years it's only in recent years that their influence has lessened the result of which has more to do with scandal than anything else.

Like I said:

Look, don't vote for McCain or fill-in-the-blank (R) candidate, I don't give a sh**.... but don't dress up your decision and need for revenge in this nonsense!

Willfully accepting a lie in order to prove a point makes you ignorant not principled!!!

aceintx's picture

off from each other but I'm obviously not getting my point across.

Quote:
Your premise, that the the Republican Party has swung left is disingenuous at best. please name and link to the platform positions that prove this shift? Problem is, you can't, because they haven't, period! -- Your perception of the Party is irrelevant!

I've never said the platform had changed...quite the opposite. There is no one that can make the case that I ever had faulted the Republican Party Platform as a problem. To the contrary, I've lamented the fact that our leadership and representatives refuse to follow it.

I defy you to tell me and defend that the last several congresses governed as conservatives on fiscal issues. They have played around with social issues in ways that I opposed such as the Terry Shiavo vote and passing Faith Based initiatives which I wouldn't call Conservative positions at all.

Again, vengeance has nothing to do with the points I'm making and I'm fractly stunned that you keep trying to characterize what I've said in this thread as such.

Can you seriously tell me, and defend the assertion that the Dems have not put forth socially conservative Dems in PA, VA, MS, LA etc and captured safe seats all the while the Republican Party is in one of it's cycles that seam to occur every 12 years where the Rockefeller wing asserts it's will on the party and pushes SoCons to the margins?....That's my point...if you can do so more power to you because I don't see it IMHO.

Finally...I'm not including myself in the characterization I made...I should have used they the them insted of we and us wich no doubt adds to the cunfusion...I'm saying...and thought I said clearly that some will fall for the Dems outreach toward them and vote for the Dem candidates in Congress and the Senate...and maybe even for POTUS...The tactic the Dems are relying on is not to win a majority of those votes...but to peal enough of them away so as to defeat Republicans running in 2008.

You can stand by your assertions if you wish...and I will stand by mine because they are my opinion.

Impeach the Traitorous 5!!!

gamecock's picture

he was whiskeypalian before that.

Its all good.

"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

aceintx's picture

I'm not sure what made me think that unless it was his name?

HMM

Thanks for correcting me

Impeach the Traitorous 5!!!

Dittos, dittos...

gamecock's picture

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/7/28/133754/717

"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson